THE CASE OF ROGER R. - 10 YEARS OLD

by Jim Greenen

The witness, whom we will call Roger R., age 10, wishes to remain anonymous. His father was called on May 3, and the initial interview was conducted on May 6, 1989. Although the witness had a severe cough and there were distractions from his younger brother, there was a considerable amount of information recorded on the three hours of tapes during the interview. Follow-up interview was held on May 7 and on May 30 and 31. Donald Ware came to Orlando to assist in the investigation.

THE INTERVIEW

The accounts that Roger R. mentions throughout this story are sometimes not in the actual sequence that it happened but in the order as he told his story. For the purpose of clarity, when Roger mentions his father he is referring to his step-father that he now lives with unless otherwise stated.

Roger went to be on Saturday night at 11:00 p.m., April 29, 1989 after watching Star Trek on television. Sometime after Roger went to sleep (time unknown) he heard sounds like voices. He woke up and saw four entities about 5'6" tall. They (the entities) put Roger on a table-like device that had no legs or supports. The table was white, glass like and about 2' wide and 6' long. Roger said that a person could not see through it. The entities put Roger on the table and they floated him over to the bedroom window and at that time Roger told them that if they opened the window the burglar alarm would go off (Radio Shack - battery powered with manually activated witch). Then they informed him that it would not go off and when they took out the screen and opened the window, the alarm was silent.

The entities floated the table with Roger on it out the window and along the side of the apartment to a small open field. They approached a craft that was shaped like two plates, one inverted over the other.

INTO A CRAFT

Roger saw a door into a craft, hinged at the bottom, that opened up on the side of the craft. The inside of the door was flat, had lights along the edge, and served as a ramp to enter the craft. At that time Roger does not remember what happened but the next thing that he remembered he was in a room standing next to a black glass table with buttons on it.

Roger said the entities had heart shaped heads with two giant black eyes, two holes for a nose, a slit for a mouth and were gold in color. When they talked to him it was through his head and he talked in a normal voice. When asked to use Zipatone color codes for skin color, he chose 2525 for the males and 2517 (a more brownish color) for the females.

One of the entities pushed a button on the table and the floor lit up. There was a large screen in the room with a panel under it. On the panel there were numerous buttons. Roger said that one of the entities pushed a button and the craft went straight up off the ground into the atmosphere. This he saw on the screen. The screen that Roger was watching was about 6' long and 4' high. Roger said that he felt no sensation of movement when the ship went up and he saw no stars on the screen.

They asked Roger what he was and he replied that he was a human and a boy. They then asked him what his name was and he answered Roger. They then told him that they knew his parents.

They took Roger to another room and showed him a film of his friend Nancy in a hospital. They said that they could not let him see all of the film because there were too many things in the hospital that caused interference on the screen. He asked them where Nancy was and they said that she was on another ship and she would not be reborn because she had been born too many times.(!) They also told him that his mother is going to get a good job and make a lot of money. They showed him the building that she will be working in, orange with mirrors on the outside. They showed him the past where a boy in a blue bedroom that asked his mother if he could come out. She said, "Not till your father comes home." One more thing that they showed Roger was a small girl going into a ship and they were studying her.

When the showing was over they took Roger into another room. At that time he mentioned that a small red ball about the size of a golf ball had been following him. The ball-like object had a blue, red and yellow ring around it. After entering the room, Roger said a small device that looked like a micro chip floated over to him and a small probe came out and took a sample from a more sore spot that he had on his finger. After the sample was taken the skin sample was sucked into the device. Then the chip like device floated over to a computer type device and the results of the sample were checked.

Roger also mentioned that he had a number of sores before he entered the craft, but after entering they disappeared. He says that they brought back the one sore so they could take a sample.

They took him to another table where a man was sitting up. He was about 30 years old with blond hair and a mustache. Roger did not talk to him. Then he was taken over to another panel where they told him to push two buttons which he did. Roger asked them why they wanted him to push the buttons. They said, "To take a blood sample." They knew that he was afraid of needles.

Next they went into another room. He started to feel the ship shake. The door that led to the outside of the ship opened up. Through this door Roger saw the inside of another ship. They told him to get back on the platform that he came in on. He was floated out the door into a larger craft.

INTO A LARGER CRAFT

Roger said the ship was large; about the size of four apartment complexes like they live in. They told Roger that the ship was too large to land on earth. The inside of the ship was white. They removed his night clothes and g ave him a red suit that clung to him. He describes it as looking like the clothing used in Star Trek. The suit had writing on it that he could not understand. He describes the writing as a form of hieroglyphics. When Roger entered the larger craft, he said that the small red ball that followed him through the smaller craft stayed there. When he entered the larger craft another ball followed him throughout the craft. This ball looked just like the red one except it was blue in color. Both balls hovered about 3' over his head and occasionally omitted a red beam over his body. He mentioned they were taking brain scans.

After Roger put on the clothes they took him into a room and told him that they have the ability to make themselves any shape they want. But the bodies that he now sees are their natural bodies. They also said they have been visiting his brother often. (His brother is three years old.)

They showed Roger a map on the wall. It was of America. He said that they started going straight at a point on the map which he recognized as Alaska. They said some of their people are there. The aliens then showed him a man in Alaska that heard some noise, and then the man saw them, he started to call them the devil. The man took a gun and shot at them. They left because they told Roger that there were peaceful people.

They also told Roger that they hid some books by Shirley McLaine from his Dad. They said that the books were wrong, and she wrote them just for money. They also opened the book Communion to page 112 (Editor's Note: It must be the pocket book as page 112 is blank in the hardbound edition.) and left it popped open on the bookshelf. This they wanted his dad to read. They told Roger they had to leave because they were afraid that his dad might catch them. The inside of his house and the entity hiding the books was all projected on a screen in the craft. Note: Later his dad said the book incident happened a few weeks before and that he accused Roger of hiding and rearranging his books.

They left and went into another room that was square and had buttons located on the walls. This room also had a screen on which they showed Roger in bed at home, an his father came into the room to check on him. They said that he can be on the ship and be at home at the same time. They told Roger that this is happening now.

The aliens took Roger into another room that he described as round or circular shape. In the middle of the room there was an object that looked like a large clear glass box with two buttons on the side. Roger said that it was a stall as two people standing on top of each other, and that two fat people could get into it. They opened the door to the box and had Roger step into it, then they closed the door behind him.

The entities went to a computer-like device and started to push buttons on the computer. At that time a flat, square, red laser-type light went down over his head to his shoulders and went back up. Later they told him that they were taking a brain scan. They removed him from the box and brought him over to the computer. They brought up on the screen a picture of roger when he was about two years old and living in an apartment in Texas. There was a red spot on the wall that kept getting larger. (?)

Roger went into another room that was all black. They asked him what he would like to do. He told them he would like to go skiing, and they said he will be going skiing when he reaches the age of 13. At that time they projected a 3-D picture in the middle of the room of him skiing down a slope when he is older. Roger said that could feel the cold when he was watching the picture.

then they asked Roger where he would like to go and he responded by saying, "I don't know." They said that he might be moving to some place in the United States or Germany.

Roger entered another room after they left the black room. Here he said the room also had a screen on the wall but this one was about twice as large as the others. The room looked like a hospital room. It had tables and the ceiling was like a solid light. On the screen they showed Roger the time he and his parents almost got into a car accident on the way to Daytona Beach. They said that they turned the car instead of his Dad turning the car, to avoid the accident that was about to happen. They also told him what his Dad though was an airplane he was watching on the way home from Orlando was actually them.

They then took a light and shined it along the side of Roger's arm. Then they took a glass light bar, described as looking like a fluorescent light bulb with multicolored lights, and told him to lay down on the table. they then passed the light over his body.

Roger was taken to a round room that he said was in the middle of the ship. It took a long time to get to it. In the room there were some aliens that were different. They looked like the others, but their skin appeared "orange" (Zipatone #2517) rather than gold. Their eyes were bluish black, and they had only three fingers. He asked about them and was told that they were women. Also in the room there was a very large alien that Roger said he only came up to the middle of his thighs. He looked like the others except he was wearing a robe that had a hood. Around his neck and down to his knees hung a scarf type cloth with writing on it. Another alien had blue clothes on like Roger was wearing and was about his height. Roger mentioned this alien had muscular arms and looked like he could throw somebody across the room with no problems. There was another alien that was just a little smaller than the larger one but he was wearing a black cape and a helmet. All three left the room while Roger was still there.

They asked Roger how his people reproduced and Roger replied by asking them how they reproduce. They replied that they cannot answer that and repeated the question to him. Roger answered, "From his Mother." Roger also asked them how they eat and they said some-what like he does but a lot less quantity. They told Roger that his younger brother will be repeating the first or second grade in school. (Note: At this time Roger said that some of these things that they told him was asked in the smaller ship.)

After they left that room, they went into another room that was rather large. It had a lot of glass cages with animals in them. The animals looked similar to the animals that we have on this planet (cheetah, snakes, birds, fish) but some were different. One looked like part tiger and part alligator. Another looked like part lion and part bear. Roger said that they just walked through that room without stopping.

They told Roger that his teachers were not telling him the truth in school because at one time there were people living on Mars. Then they told him about his grandfather in Germany. On the first planet he was killed and then reborn on this planet. The first planet is not in this solar system. It was destroyed. It is now an asteroid belt. The aliens treat this planet better than the first planet because our ancestors (from the first planet0 would kill anything or everything on the first planet. Before the first planet was destroyed they brought some of the people to this planet. They also said that they made this planet.

At that time, Roger said, they left the large ship and went back into the smaller craft. They took him back home but instead of taking him back through the window they took him through the front door and then to his room. They told him that they would be back to see him in a couple of weeks or months (he wasn't sure which).

After the interview with Roger I asked him if he could remember anything else that the aliens told him. He said that he did but could not tell me because he was afraid that he would get NASA mad at him. I assured him that I would not tell NASA. His father also told him that I don't work for the government and it's okay to tell me.

This is what Roger had to say:

When he was in one of the rooms in the large ship, the aliens showed him on one of the screens a large room with men walking around with blue coats. A patch was on the arm with the letters "NASA." The men were also wearing face masks that roger described as looking like a radiation mask. In the room there were four or five aliens and the men in lab coats were sticking needles into some aliens and telling them it will not hurt. But the aliens told Roger that they were dying. Roger noticed that the aliens were turning a different color between yellow and green.

As roger was watching the screen (later he said that was the worst part of the trip) they showed the men chopping up the aliens (Roger's words) and using them for experiments. They also told Roger about the men in black. Roger asked them who they were and they said the men in black are NASA.

At this time in the interview Roger felt uneasy and wanted reassurance that NASA would not find out about this because he didn't want to get into trouble.

Roger continued on and said that when the aliens are on the planet surface trying to help us the men in black capture them, perform experiments on them and don't seem to care if they kill them.

Roger also mentioned that the room that they showed on the screen had other doors in it. One of the doors looked like it was made of steel and had a round window in it and the words "HOT" ??? (he did not know what the other word was). They showed the human taking the aliens into the HOT room and then, after removing them, they would cut them into pieces and run a test. Along with the HOT room there was a COLD room and a room that was used for acid experiments.

The aliens told Roger that when one of their people died they can make another one but sometimes they would die inside also. I asked Roger to explain that and he said that he thinks they were talking about their soul. He said that the aliens told him that when a person dies sometimes they are reborn. If they are not reborn they stay with them. A person can be reborn a thousand times. They said they are the ones that made the people on this planet. They also told Roger that there are some of their people living on this planet that look just like he does.

A few other things that were mentioned during this part of the interview:

1. They said they did not know what is happening to the ships in the Bermuda Triangle.

2. They said the reason that his father is always tired is that they are trying to teach him and he is not listening to them. Also his father forgets when they take him on board their ship. They said that the next time that they take his father he will remember everything.

3. They said the men in black won't be NASA anymore. They would be history and it's the big men in NASA that are ordering the test on the aliens. The workers do not want to do this but are told that they would be fired if they don't do what they are told.

4. The morning after the apparent abduction when Roger woke up he looked out his bedroom window and noticed that a black 4-door Ford was sitting on the other side of the parking lot in the grass. He got his binoculars and saw a man in a suit with dark glasses on facing him. When the man noticed Roger he started his car and turned around in the grass and left in a hurry. As the car left, Roger said the license plate had "Government' written on it.

5. During that day and into the next day after the apparent abduction Roger's father said that there were many government helicopters flying around, and over, his house. NOTE: Roger's father spent most of his life on government bases around the world. He says that he is familiar with government helicopters and aircraft.

6. Roger mentioned that on one of the viewing screens they showed him a man in a suit jumping over a fence outside of his father's room. This they showed in slow motion. Roger said that the man cut his leg on a nail that was sticking out and he was holding his leg as he jumped into a car that was waiting for him. He mentioned that the car looked like the one that was outside his room the next morning.

About two weeks before, Roger's father noticed a man looking into his bedroom window. He rushed outside and observed a man jumping the fence alongside the apartment. The man landed in some shrubs, picked himself up, ran over to a car that was waiting for him. What he said was unusual about this incident was the man was wearing a suit.

Before the end of the interview with Roger he drew sketches of:

1. The aliens that took him from his room.
2. The small ball with a ring around it.
3. The microchip-type device that took skin samples.
4. The first craft that he was in.
5. The second or larger craft.
6. The inside of one of the rooms that shows control panel and viewing screen with pictures of two aliens.
7. A picture of another alien, with clothing, that was aboard the large craft.

THE INVESTIGATION

After the interview with Roger a search of the area Roger said the craft had landed was made. The area showed no signs of physical traces. There were patches of dead grass and dead branches laying on the ground but we could not find any depressions or other evidence that we could link with the sighting.

Roger's father mentioned that after the incident he noticed that Roger has become better behaved and more affectionate now to both parents.

Roger's step-father seems to be a person highly dedicated toward service to other. When he read "Communion" he recognized similar events in his own life and has read many recent UFO publications.

Roger's mother mentioned that her father was an officer in the military and she remembers that he was visited by three men in black. She was also at the interview and concurs with what Roger and her husband said.

It seems unreasonable to assume that roger had read UFO books and publications because of the first week in June Roger's CTVS test showed that he was in the bottom 8% in reading comprehension which is extremely low. His reading problem had been recognized and he been tested. We will have an opportunity to retest him later.

In the following weeks, with Roger's direction, his father made more detail drawings in color of:

1. The layout of the inside of the smaller craft.
2. A more detailed drawing of the small red ball with ring.
3. A more detailed drawing of the micro-type chip.
4. Roger in his bedroom with alien.
5. An alien tat was in his room.

On May 31, 1989 an inquiry of the local Police and Sheriff Department turned up no reports of sightings with the period before, and after, the incident. An ad was also placed in the local newspaper seeing UFO witnesses in the past six weeks and as of this report no response has come from the local community. (An alias was used with a local phone number of a friend to avoid a disclosure of our interest.)

Roger's father's work associate was asked about his character and honesty and he replied. "Hard worker, reliable, decision maker and talkative." Character check was made with a person that Roger works for (he delivers newspapers0 and she replied that "He is a normal 10 year old, quiet at times and very nice."

EVALUATION

At this early point in the investigation this case is considered an unknown of great significance; because the 10-year-old boy apparently had not memory block while on board two UFOs, and his father seems convince he could not have made it up. The father said they showed him things about the past that the boy could not have known normally. This case involves many of the most controversial issues in UFOlogy.

James S. Greenan

P. URIAL